[Thed]

Been looking at purchasing a new backpack for some time now. The pack I'm currently using is a Kelty scout pack from the early 1990's. It still works fine, but is really better for lighter loads. What I am looking for is a new external frame pack which can handle transporting greater volume and weight.

In all reality, my current pack is fine for camping by myself. But recently I have been involving my kids more in outdoor activities. Because their size, they are limited in how much they can functionally carry. So if I want to backpack with them, I need to be able to transport a sizeable portion of the gear and equipment they would need on the trip.

Top of the list right now is the pack shown below. It is the Jansport D2 pack.

http://www.jansport....cid=31&pid=TVU2

Quote

Ergonomic S-curve shoulder straps
Adjustable external frame
Pass through ski access
Large main compartment with horseshoe opening
Foam back panel
Large front pocket
Dual side pockets
Seperate sleeping bag compartment
Large front pocket
Foam hip belt
Removable front pocket
Top and bottom lashing square

420 Denier Nylon
5 lbs 13 oz / 2.66 kg
38.1in h x 14.1in w x 13.7in d
16-22in
5221.2 cu in / 85.56L

If you look at the first picture, you can see it has to aluminum frame bat wings around the hip belt area. The strap side picture does not seen to have the bat wings shown. My hopes are that in addition to being extra side support on the hips, it may be a hardpoint for a holstered firearm. This may be wishful thinking, and not practical in application. But it does have me curious.

In the specifications, it does not state whether it has load lifters or not. But from the strap side pisture, it appears to.

Another feature I like about it is the oversized loop the frame makes above the pack for lashing external gear high.

The single cosmetic detail I like the least is the gigantor Jansport logo on the pack. That is something which always bugged me. I'm not the kind of feller who wears Nike Swooshtikas. Smaller well placed product logos are a sign of good manufacturing and design taste. I hope that the logo shown is easy to remove.

Any thoughts on this pack? It is a bit pricey. Campmor has it for $229, which is above my budget. But it seems like it would be ideal for what I am looking to do with it.

[Tobus]

Wow, 5221 cubic inches is pretty good. Jansport also has a 4900 cubic inch pack (the Carson model) that's about half the price, at $110 through Campmor. I dunno if that extra 300 cubic inches is worth the extra $120...

I'm betting that load-lifters are standard on pretty much any external-frame pack these days unless it's an el-cheapo no-name brand.

Yeah, the huge Jansport logo is pretty lame. As is the burnt-orange color (but I'm an Aggie, so I'm biased). Their pack is pretty square... or 'angular' if you prefer... Maybe that's a good sign. The ugly stuff is always the most functional.

My Kelty Trekker 3950 also has the adjustable top rail, which seems like a good idea. I've just never needed to load it up enough to require using it at it's taller settings. Quite honestly, I think that would be a little too high. Even at its lowest setting, it's above my head. I guess you could pack some really lightweight but bulky stuff up there.

The bat-wings are interesting. I've often wished I could extend the lower part of my Kelty frame out to the sides like that for stabilizing stuff that's tied below the pack body.

You know, looking at the two pics above, those don't even look like the same pack. The frame is completely different on them. Side pockets look different too. You sure those are both the same model?

[Thed]

Now that you brought it up, I am weighing whether to purchase that other Jansport pack. The only trivial concern is that it's black in color. Not that the color really matters. But the majority of the backpacking I will do with that pack will be in Texas under the Sun. What I would really like is a lighter color pack, which can reduce how much light energy it absorbs. Not that the burnt orange color is going to be a better color. At least it is not black




Turns out that second pack picture is not accurate at all. It's just an image Campmor threw up there.

The aluminum bat wings seems like the main issue really. I see potential for the design. But I wish I could check one out in person before shelling out those kind of bucks.

[Tobus]

Being a welder, and a handy sort of fellow, I'm betting you could do the batwing mod on any frame backpack with some aluminum tubing from the local hardware store.

[Thed]

Tobus, on 22 June 2011 - 05:48 PM, said:

Being a welder, and a handy sort of fellow, I'm betting you could do the batwing mod on any frame backpack with some aluminum tubing from the local hardware store.

Oh.. that's way harder than you think. I'm set up to do steel. Not thin gauge aluminum, let alone welding onto a mystery alloy of unknown temper designation. A do it yourself project like that would probably be best done as a bolt on modification.

[Bawana]

When I first read this thread I thought to myself “Why doesn’t he simply go get a Trailwise?”
I mean if ya want a monster sized bullet proof external frame pack, it’s a Trailwise.
So I went and looked ‘em up.
.
.
.
Ah, seems they went under some years back…

So I’m a little behind the times. I did some research and I was shocked to see only JanSport, Kelty, Alps Mountaineering, High Sierra, Mountainsmith, and a few cheapos like Coleman and Texsport sell external frame packs.

Most don’t have packs as big as the D2 you posted about, and many are probably what you’d call an “entry level” pack.

Does it have to be external frame?
There are some monster internal frame rigs like the Gregory Whitney 95 out there –



That’s a 6,285 cubic inch internal frame pack, pretty durn big.
It’s also probably about 300 clams…


High Sierra has the Long Trail 90 –



This is a 5,500 cubic inch internal frame rig.
This rig costs about 100 bucks. For an inexpensive pack this has OK reviews on Amazon. Only two reviews on Trailspace, but both gave it 4-1/2 starts out of five.

I reckon you want an external frame so you can pack even more stuff on top and below it and the like.
I see the JanSport D2 has two reviews at Trailspace, one five star and the other only two star. The old D5 packs were quite well liked.

I remember First Tracker had a Jansport back in the late 70’s with the arms on the hips. I don’t remember if it was a D3 or not.
He used that pack allot for all kinds of trips and crazy stuff. I remember once we stuck a 12 volt car battery and 23 channel CB radio inside it and mounted an antenna on the frame. Talk about early portable radio experiments. I think the battery acid ate a few holes in the pack though. I bet he had that pack up till his college days.
I remember it was quite comfortable but the arms were kinda odd and felt a bit restrictive to me. Did a very good job transferring the weight though.
At the time I had a cheapo Hillary external frame pack from Sears that I thought was the Cats Meow, so what did I know?
Back When, the big JanSport packs were some of the best packs around.
I remember they way they built the frames with aluminum split blocks with plastic bushings for the hinged hip wings, and aluminum blocks at frame joints and the like.
They were not to heavy at all, and bullet proof.

I reckon if you can afford the D2 and it’s anything like they used to be it will be one heck of a backpack for you. The question is if the quality of the new packs rivals those of old, and I think Tobus has a good idea when he mentioned the much less expensive Carson, but you can’t pile stuff on top of it like you can the D2..

I will say beware of carrying to much stuff. One of my brother-in-laws has just such a monster external frame pack as you seek ( I think it’s a Trailwise! ) for just the same reason you want one. He has been known to load 100 pound into that monster because his-now-ex-wife couldn’t carry anything and his little kids couldn’t carry anything and then his littlest kid got all tired out on the trail and insisted on being carried and before he knew what was going on this fella took a nose dive with kid, gear and all. Passed right out he pushed himself so hard. This kid is bigger then even you are Thed, and massively strong but he found his outer limits on that simple 3 mile hike in hot weather!

[Andy]

I traded a guy at work some on-call for a mid-90's (only used once) Camp Trails Wilderness external frame pack.
They go for $40-$70 used online, if you can find one, and I got paid to be on-call so it was a great deal for me.
I couldn't find a lot about it online, but the reviews I found were all positive.
http://backpackingmag.com/?page_id=18

Not sure about the size, but it's big. Some people report carrying 70lbs in it comfortably (if it's possible to be comfortable with 70lbs on your back).
Don't know when I'll have time to try it out, but I hope to soon.
I'll be in the same situation as Thed if I take the family out. I'll be carrying most of the weight.
The only place to find Camp Trails these days is Ebay or Craigslist, so this probably doesn't help much Thed, I just wanted to be part of the thread.

[handyrandyrc]

Not necessarily making any recommendation, just a comment on what Bawana posted. The scoutmaster I serve with uses one of those Gregory Whitney 95 (95 litre!) packs. It's truly a wonderment. Sleeping bag, tent, bear barrel, stove, pots, EVERYTHING just disappears in there...



ALL OF THIS CAME OUT OF THAT GREGORY PACK! It's laying there on the right hand side of the table.



It was like watching Mary Poppins pull lamps and mirrors out of her carpet bag.

[Tobus]

The thing about an internal frame pack is that you're limited to shoving everything inside of there and making it fill up the volume in an efficient manner. If you have bulky items, or oddly-shaped items, or items with sharp edges and corners, it becomes a real issue. External frames allow you to strap the oddly-shaped gear on the outside where it makes no difference. You're not limited to the capacity of the bag itself.

So I'm willing to bet that even a 65 liter (~3950 cubic inch) external frame pack like the Kelty I use can easily carry more volume than a 95 liter internal frame pack. After all, that 95-liter pack is 50% larger than a 65-liter pack. I know for certain that I can strap an extra 50% of my internal volume to the external frame.

Heck, here's a shot of one solo trip I did. All the stuff on that table was packed in (or onto) the Kelty pack shown. And I wasn't anywhere near running out of room!



But I suppose it's really up to personal preference and the intended load.

[handyrandyrc]

Absolutely, which is why I said I don't say it to make a recommendation. I'm sure Thed knows what will work best for him in his intended use.

[Bawana]

I think Tobus hit the nail on the head here. You can pack all kinds of stuff onto an external frame pack.
It seems one is expected to carry your sleeping bag outside on the frame with such a pack.
Thed probably wants to carry his kids sleeping bags and pads and extra clothing? That’s about as bulky as it gets, but not very heavy. The big external frame pack seems ideal for this.

I will say though that carry my sleeping bag outside of my pack scares the crap out of me! I haven’t done so since the mid 80’s and I know I’ll never go back. My sleeping bag is the one final bit of gear that simply must stay dry no matter what, or I risk a very uncomfortable night or even hypothermia. My lightweight down bag is also one of the most delicate and expensive objects in my pack, and I need to protect it from dirt and abrasion.
I guess a real heavy stuff sack, or better yet two stuff sacks will do, but I just can’t bring myself to hang my most expensive and delicate bit of gear and the one thing that simply must remain dry, on the outside of my heavy coated nylon pack bag!

Heh, of course I operate in rainy areas…

The youngest nephew I take on overnight trips is now eleven.
At ten years of age I had him carrying his sleeping bag, jacket, spare socks, water bottle, plastic bowl, cup and spoon. This stuff just about filled his pack which is a good thing because it kept his weight down and prevented him from carrying all kinds of crazy crap that I know he’d otherwise lug along. Teaches him what he needs to carry, what is really important.
I can easily carry all the food and shelter and extra water needed in my 75 liter pack, and on simple overnight trips in warm weather even I use just a swiss army surplus ruck because my down bag is so compact I can still carry all the food and extra water.

Dunno how I’d manage with a younger kid then that though.

Also, I’d only buy a pack that I could try on first.
This means I’m limited to what is available locally, but that’s OK by me.
Having a pack loaded with sand bags fitted to me at a good mountain shop trumps all other concerns. It’s surprising how some packs will feel right and some will not, and that magic one will make 40 pounds feel like 15! Just because a certain pack is supposed to fit so and so torso doesn’t mean it will fit me.
I do have very definite likes and dislikes about color, pocket placement, straps and flaps,
but as with boots, fit is all important.

[Tobus]

Quote

It seems one is expected to carry your sleeping bag outside on the frame with such a pack.

The description Thed posted of the Jansport says it has a separate sleeping bag compartment. My Kelty does too. That's standard on modern packs.

A huge bag like Thed's Big Agnes will probably still need to go outside, but I don't see why you're so terrified of the idea. Millions of hikers do it and don't die. A dry bag or wrapping it in your groundcloth would be fine.

[Tobus]

Thed, I saw this at Gibson's today. Pics from my phone:





The tag said it was made by Outbound... "outdoor equipment since 1968". It's a gigantic frame with shoulder straps, hip belt, and mesh behind your back. No load-lifters, but those could be retrofitted. It also has a cargo shelf as shown. Price was $83.

They has the pack that goes on the frame, called a "moose bag", and it was huge. But it was just a single bag with two large outer pockets, not much more functional than a large ALICE pack. It was camouflage. Price was $34.

If you or your wife are handy with a sewing machine, it would be cool to just make your own pack to fit the frame, with pockets and tabs and whatever custom features you need.

[Troy]

That's an impressive looking store. Looks like they have all sorts of awesome stuff to dig through.

[Tobus]

Gibson's is awesome. They don't have high-end brands like REI or anything, but they are more like an old-fashioned general store, carrying everything from guns to camping/hunting gear to hardware to cookware to clothing, etc. They were real popular in the 70s but you don't see 'em much any more. I can find stuff there that I can't find anywhere else.

[Thed]

That is quite the rack

A bit excessive for my needs, but that sure could be a handy piece of gear for moving oddball sized objects. Niether my wife or I have any sewing talent. So modifying a bag for it would not be possible.


In time I will end up getting an internal frame pack. It seems like it would be much more handy than an external frame pack if I had to travel with it on an airline. My idea on the internal pack is that I would perhaps put a true ultralight kit inside of it. But I'm still a ways away from there.

Right now I am discovering a need for something like the D2 or other pack. As stated earlier, I like the ability to lash bulky gear to the outside of the pack. I can forsee having to carry not onoly my gear, but the supplies for 1-3 other kids as well.

The monster internal packs y'all linked to however did catch my eye. They would work too.